Well there are a lot of Christians in the world Catholics who would have something to say about that. He does not have the right to do that realistically speaking. So I think we need also to lose our fear of the [IB] and I would fear the [IB] in the hands of a Bin laden. Because I think this is a dangerous and narrowly focused violent man. But it doesn’t mean the institution has to be and who knows a possible [IB] could emerge again in the future simply as a [IB]. I don’t whether it will ever happen, maybe it will never happen because it’s too complex. How would you do it, who would it be, how would he be elected, where would he be from, where would it be based, what authority would he have, who would be required to believe what he had? But its not an outrageous idea to think that there should be some supreme, unofficial spokesman or even official spokesman for the Muslim world that people could be free to accept or not accept. But it would be like the pope speaking. Catholics do or do not accept certain elements of what he says.

Interviewer: I think most of us would say that Bin laden would not be a good candidate for [IB].

Graham Fuller: No I agree

Interviewer: Most of us I’m sure would agree. Yes sir in the back.

Person: Given your experience in Afghanistan you know a lot about Afghanistan and your thesis in the book. A big part of your thesis is that religion is often used as a banner for very secular issues. To what degree was with the soviets when they came into Afghanistan, were they actually at war? Because you mentioned in your book that a lot of the troops that came in were actually Tajeks or from Tajikistan. So to what degree was, were they actually trying to implement or destroy Islam and to what degree was it kind of playing on the instincts of a lot of uneducated people who more or less could tell them that this and this and this and they actually go through with it. And as a follow up given for example the work that you did at the CIA what would you have if, cause you did I guess predicted what would happen in the future if this happened or this happened or this happened. How would Afghanistan look different if the soviets hadn’t been defeated and the Soviet Union would have collapsed eventually anyhow? I guess it’s a two part question.

Graham Fuller: That’s a very interesting question and I haven’t thought it all out. I mean there are many important what if questions. First of all about the Soviet Union invasion, I think there were two things at work here, first of all or maybe three things even. The Soviet Union has had an ideology a global ideology which was used to project Russian power in particular. The Chinese had the same ideology but the Russians were not particularly happy to see the Chinese pushing global communist revolution, they wanted it really to be Russian global communist revolution. So they wanted to push the revolution and it was unacceptable for them that the new Afghan communist government and state could collapse so they came in to save that. But finally I think, they Soviet Union has long been fearful of the power of Islam as an organizing principle. And if you look in to Russian history and I talk about that a good bit. It’s the relations of the Muslim inside Russia which very interesting is not this bloody thing that you would expect. But anyway it wanted to make sure that Islam could not ever become a banner for nationalism. But it’s one thing to be an Uzbek and say in the name of Uzbek nationalism I’m going to fight the Russians who are atheist or Christian. But when you can say I am an Uzbek and I’m ethnically different and religiously different you double your power of resisting Soviet Russian control. So I think the soviets were acting on all of those bases. If the soviets have not been defeated I wonder, I think it would have been a significant but not decisive blow to the force of let’s say jihadi Islam. The victory was incredibly important because the mujahadin I talked to would say we… Islam is now a super power because we defeated a super power as you know. If they had not defeated the super power I think they would still have believed that Islam had great power to convince and persuade and to change but it would not have had the force that it has today with that soviet defeat. And the soviets the Russians are still worried about Islam potentially aligned with ethnic nationalism on the part of [IB] or Azerbaijanis or Uzbeks. Well Uzbeks and Azerbaijanis have already departed but there was that concern. But [IB] today certainly [IB] are still sources of concern and they like to also suggest that we are both Turkey and it’s a distinct ethnic element from Russians and religiously they are distinct. It strengthens your sense of distinction.