Graham Fuller: Repeat itself in what sense?

Person: In the sense of the west coming in forcibly into the east for all the reasons that you mentioned and others. And on the other hand the west, the fear of what is not known or the fear of not knowing history. So I don’t know if that is something that ties into what you are trying to say in terms of why did we need a villain basically to play against. You know what I’m saying?

Graham Fuller: Yeah on both sides really, yeah well I think actually we were talking just before the before… The talk, excuse me about whether the west or the US needs an enemy. I think many societies and governments often want to have enemies. It’s very useful as an organizing principle. Muslim rulers like to have enemies American governments sometimes like to have enemies. It’s you can get a lot done through fear and other negative things. So yeah it is a reversion in a way back. It does fulfill many of the fears of Muslims that the crusades aren’t over. There was George Bush’s I think entirely unwitting I don’t think he meant religious crusade but nonetheless it’s part of English to talk about crusading against this that or the other thing. But it was taken very seriously. So yes this is the reawakening those fears. And what really does worry me now is what used to be the struggle against Saddam Hussein or any kind of secular wars for secular reasons have now taken on this extra religious dimension. I mean part of it I said that earlier I think the United States could be remembered in Islamic history as the great [muahad] of the umma the great unifier perhaps of all time. Because of modern technology and the broad nature of this global war on terrorism we all have multiple identities. We are American we are male or female we are, Republicans or Democrats or Independents. We are lawyers or we are garbage men or we are we are rich or we are poor we have many identities. This is obviously true of Muslims as well. But right now the Muslim identity is unusually high, abnormally high. I would say unreasonably high because there’s no reason why when Muslims wake up in the morning the first thing they think about is I’m Muslim yes, perhaps for purposes of prayer. But they have those all during the day other operating principles. They are professors they have jobs they have families they have all these other areas of life in which they are proud of being either Iraqi or Egyptian and these other things.

So I think the war the violence the extremism, the radicalism that the war has created has driven Muslims to a point where that is the dominant identity and tends to strengthen this constant discussion of just Islam within the context of the problem. Which makes westerners think; aha it’s also about Islam. Another example I like to quote often is let’s say if you are Jewish. If you were a Jew in Germany in 1920 and somebody said what are you? That person would probably say I’m a professor I am at Berlin University, I’m a lecturer on psychology, I’m a member of a social democratic party, I’m a Jew and I am a Berliner for example. That would be a typical answer you might expect. If you asked that same Jew in 1936-37 what are you? The only answer that meant anything was being a Jew. Nothing else mattered. It was life and death and you were killed or not killed and or taken away or not taken away, strictly on that basis. It didn’t matter that you were German or a Berliner or a professor or a psychologist or any of these things. So what I am suggesting that under conditions of extreme radicalism and harshness and violence and oppression this, this you reach for the symbol that signifies your suffering. And that is what I think is particularly happening with Muslims today, making them ultra conscious super conscious of this particular Muslim identity beyond what normally would be the case cause it’s in front of your face all day long.