Octavio: Even within a generation to generations?
Dr. Werz: Yes. And the same of course is the same for Jews in the United States because it is interesting to see that to a certain degree you had in the 1920s with the native’s movement ordered anti-Semitism in the United States. All along the Eastern Seaboard at the most chief universities you had people like [IB] Staddard and Madison Grant and other people that were in constant contact with the Nazis in Germany, their stuff got published and translated. The interesting thing here is that to a certain degree the rise of Fascism in Europe help to de-marketize the United States, because there is a face then in the late 1930s where Madison Grant bitterly writes, the Nazis are exaggerating all our great ideas and now we can’t really talk about Eugenics anymore in the United States because it looks bad, right? And so that is also has to do with that Trans-Atlantic dynamic but it means that the question of diversity comes into the center of American society and maybe just one last point, it is even when people define themselves in racial terms in the United States. If you say I am black, I am white, these are actually terms that only make sense in one country in the United States. If you go to Africa and you say I am black, everybody says, doesn’t make sense.
If you would say, if you would have told a German, a Bohemian and a Pole in the 1920s that they are all one group that they are white, you probably would have ended up injured. Because the whites as a group actually only constitute themselves during the 2nd world war. The scandal of the 2nd world war is not that blacks were still in segregated battalions. The interesting thing in the 2nd world war is that Jews, Italians, Germans and Poles were fighting together. And there is interesting research being done during and after the war, that that actually established the white group and this is one of the reasons why after the war you have a rise in anti-black and anti-minority racism, because that group establishes itself upon the notion of the exclusion of others. So I am not saying that maybe taking a step back from that idealistic exposure here. I’m not saying everything is fine, everything is fantastic. But I just think it’s interesting to look at the different dynamics in the United States as compared to other countries.
Octavio: Absolutely. And of course the one dynamic that is taking place in US society is, you know being an American who is of Hispanic descent, and now part of the 2nd largest demographic group is there is a reaction by a segment of your society that is obviously being reflected in recently the news in this particular case with Arizona. And the case of Arizona is interesting in the sense that it was the last stage in the [IB] of the US where [IB] become a state in the US. And it did not become a state until it had a white majority. If you were ‘white’ for many years Hispanics or Mexicans were classified as white just like, because of past treaties between the United States and Spain, in the formal territories in the Southwest that once belonged to [IB] Spain or Mexico. But what’s, I would like to ask for your observation on this particular movement, not only because of the recent law that was passed and will go in effect in July whereas now the police have the authority to ask the immigration status of an individual. But also there is a follow up law that basically outlawed ethnic studies in Arizona outlawed ethnic studies in Arizona, as a reaction that here we have a population of the state that is growing. And perhaps it’s not reflective of our own Identity. Is what is taking place in Arizona an over-reaction or is it a reflection if you will certain insecurities of one segment of the population that they feel that the culture is not, is being overtaken by another growth culture? I wonder if you can give us some perspective on that.
Dr. Werz: I’ll focus on the interesting part of the question because I think that, the Arizona law is very on American and the earnest sense of the word is undermining constitutional and political traditions that have made this country great. There are a lot of reasons why people may have reason to be concerned but the reaction of basically allowing a law that at least opens up the possibility of re-introducing ratio politics in this country is just unacceptable. Because if there is a problem and then you don’t take it up on the minorities, I mean that’s basically the ground rule that was rule number one for the United States in 1776 and if you compromise on that rule, then I think you are outside a historical [continuum that] makes United States a very special place then you become more European than American if you will. But the interesting question is, what is happening with regard with the Latino immigration which of course is the biggest group. It’ll grow to 100 million by 2050 as many Latinos here than Mexicans in Mexico so, these numbers are quite staggering. But at the same time, I think the United States will look different but it will still pretty much feel the same because we have places like California where you don’t have the large majority for a number of years now and is not the California except for ruining its budget and its physical integrity, is different than any, than it was 20 years ago than its any other metropolitan area of the country.